Remembering Your Life Before Birth with Christian Sundberg

When Christian was a young child, he remembered his existence before coming to Earth. While that memory left him completely for his early adult life, it spontaneously returned 14 years ago as Christian took up a meditation practice, went through a personal awakening journey, and began to have out-of-body experiences. Christian has presented at over 100 public speaking events as he does his part to remind others who we really are beneath the human play. His book, titled A Walk in the Physical, attempts to succinctly describe the larger spiritual context in which we exist and the importance of love in our human journey.

I'm looking forward to asking Christian about his experience as a young child, remembering his existence before coming to Earth, his awakening journey, his out-of-body experiences, his insights about what the human experience is and what our true nature is, what it means to be veiled, why the message of love is so important to our journey here on Earth, and so much more for what is surely going to be an incredibly fascinating and very enlightening interview for all of us.

Full disclosure, I met Christian at the International Association of Near-Death Experiences Conference in 2023. I signed up to be part of a group that enjoyed lunch with Christian. I listened to his enlightening presentation, and we took a photo together. It was then that I decided that I wanted to share Christian's fascinating, enlightening messages and healing insights on the Grief and Rebirth Podcast.

Hi Christian, a truly warm, heartfelt welcome to the Grief and Rebirth Podcast. It's so great to be with you again.

Thank you so much, Irene. I'm so excited. It's great to see you. Yeah, we're going to have such a great conversation. I can't wait to share you with everybody. You have such an amazing, insightful story to share with everyone.

So let's start from the beginning. How old were you when you had your pre-birth memory? Please describe it for us and describe the moment when it first returned to you after you took up meditation. Then I think it's kind of linked to this other question I had about how you've had many different lifetimes with different roles, right?

Yes, and so just start, and we'll move on. We'll go.

Thank you, thank you so much, Irene. So before I dive into this, I just always have to disclaim first that language cannot do this justice. We're going to use language because that's what we have, but words are so limiting. As soon as we put words on it, it's just like wrong. So I'm going to do my best, but I just have to lift that up because, you know, words are forms, symbols, and our true nature transcends the entire system of form that we exist in right now as humans.

So it's really hard to put language on this. Okay, so I'll try to give it a shot. So our true nature is kind of stuffed into these bodies. Yes, we are stuffed down into the form, into an extreme amount of limitation. Yes, we are, and yeah, it's a very alien set of limitations, actually. And so yeah, even just using language, using words, even just talking, it's a very strange way to communicate, actually. It's pretty inefficient, but anyway, so yeah, I was 44 years old. I'm 44 years old now. I was 30 years old, my body was 30 years old, when I had the pre-birth memory return.

So after I had meditated for several months, I certainly wasn't expecting anything, but I began to have very eye-opening, non-physical experiences, out-of-body experiences, and at about the same time, the pre-birth memory was just there. It was just so normal. And I know it sounds extraordinary to share the story, but it didn't seem extraordinary because when I had really let go fully of the form association, the thoughts, and the stories that I thought made me me, and I really investigated my consciousness itself, it was just so natural that I existed beyond the human story, and my pre-birth planning was just part of this story.

And it was there. So I'll try to be succinct. There's a lot to it, but I remember long ago, and I know this sounds wild by the way, but that's why you're here. I'm a normal person. I'm a working professional. I know how this sounds, but you know what? Everyone listening to this also knows that I didn't believe in any of this, and I had this amazing spiritual awakening also. So ride with us, everyone. This is an incredible story.

So I remember long before I had ever been physical, coming across a being who had incarnated physically, but I had not yet. And I felt from him the quality of his nature. So this is so hard to describe because in those systems, the higher realms are all thought-responsive, and we feel and know our connectedness with one another. There's a telepathic exchange which is very natural, and I could feel from him this incredible power, love, joy, and depth of freedom that was just shining within him and from him.

And I asked him, "Oh my gosh, do you feel as much freedom and joy as I feel that you feel?" And he shared, "Yes." And I was able to see, like he shared into himself, and he shared with me many things, but chief among them, because I asked, "How did you do this?" And he shared with me that he had lived physical lives, and there was one in particular where he had suffered a long-term health condition. He had a pain that lasted in his body for years, and the way that he chose to meet that experience allowed a refinement of his being.

And I was so inspired. I was like, "I want to do that. I want to do that. I'm going to do that." Like I was like, "Sign me up," you know, because it was just so amazing, so inspiring. And he said at first, he said something like, "And this is not negative," but he communicated something like, "That's what they all say. You don't really know what you're asking." Like I was just ignorant of how hard it can be in the physical, you know, which everybody listening to this podcast knows how hard this can be.

From that perspective, at that time, I was not aware, but I persisted. I said, "No, I immediately he said, 'Go talk to your guides.'" So I did, and I know that I lived many times after that, but the majority of my pre-birth memories are of a time somewhat immediately preceding this life, and not just this life, but the life just before this life. I had taken a long break in between lives, and I remember this guide coming to me repeatedly, like every once in a while, coming and asking, "Are you ready to go back yet? Are you ready to go back yet?" And kind of putting him off, being like, "No, I'm not ready yet. No, I'm not ready yet."

And finally being like, "Okay, I'm ready." And not pestering, but like reminding me of my own intention, you know, and then reviewing with this guide what I can only describe as my state, like who I am, who I had been, what I understood, what I knew, and it was very obvious the thing that I needed to quote "work on." And I don't like the words "need" or "work on" because it's not a need. You don't have to do this, and it's not a task, okay? But I could see that there was this very low vibration fear that had bested me in a previous experience, and because of that fear, I had become a very egoic and damaging person in that previous experience.

So I could see, "Oh man, like it was almost like a joke, like how easy it was to identify the thing that would be best for me to work on." But I knew that that fear, like so okay, so processing this fear was the important aspect of this challenge, but I knew that the fear was so low vibration. I was like, "Can this even be done? Like has any other being in creation ever processed a fear energy that's this low in this specific way?" Like it was, it just I could see even from there, like wow, that is a breathtaking fear.

And I was told, "Yes, and you have all of time available to you to do so. There's no hurry." And I just knew, "Well, if it can be done, I will do it now."

Is the purpose when you come across something like this, Christian, to choose to overcome this so that your soul continues to evolve?

Yes, it is about the evolution of joy and love. It's about the deepening of the self, and so fear is just something that we've got stuck on and that we've rejected. It's something we haven't integrated yet, some experience or some perspective that we haven't integrated yet. And so this fear was of the nature, it was of a perspective. The deep perspective was, "I am powerless to escape agony," mixed with, "I'm too proud to suffer like this." Kind of a very specific, like no, and I'm, I, I, I don't know how to describe this certain perception. It really had gotten stuck there, so to speak.

And so I was very excited to have the opportunity to reface this. You know, it's not masochism, okay? It's that we see the absolutely profound, off-the-charts opportunity that is available to us in the physical, and I was super, super excited. So they brought me a life that was really appropriate for that intention, and it wasn't this life. It was an immediately preceding life, and I remember reviewing that life in incredible detail, and I remember accepting that life, and then I remember accepting the veil.

Okay, so the veil is just the word that we use for the set of limitations and constraints that we take on in consciousness in order to have the physical experience and be the human because if we remembered what we came from, we wouldn't learn the lessons we came here to learn. Correct?

Yes, yeah, you couldn't have the human. You couldn't be the perspective of the human if your perspective was knowing that you are the all and there's absolutely nothing to fear. We don't come for fear. We come for the definition, the limitation set, the context, the rich context. That's what we come for. And so that context in our reality means a veiling, a forgetting. It's like the name of the game here is a forgetting into a state of separation, apparent separation. We're actually not separate. This is really important spiritually.

We are not separate from each other. We're not separate from the whole. We're not separate from Source, God, whatever word we want to use. That's not possible, actually. But this reality is like the most extreme version of separation, so if you really want to experience being separate, then the veiling is what's necessary in order to obscure the knowing, and it seems to erase the memory, you know.

So in my case, as I accepted the veil for this life, it was like a plummet in the vibration of my being. So imagine the body of your awareness connected to everything, and you have access to all knowledge, and it's total bliss, and then suddenly being squeezed down, down, down, lower, lower, lower, like a diving low, low, low. I like to describe it like a pitch that's being produced by a sound producer, like an amplifier or something, and it's like a high pitch, and then you turn down the knob, and then when you get to the bottom, you turn it down more, and then you turn it down more, and then more, more, more, and then more, more.

That's how it felt. It was just this absolutely incredibly intense drop in vibration all the way down, down, down into being bodily. And so I arrived to the body. I was in the fetus, the body of a fetus inside my mother, and I was like, "I am not doing this. There is no freaking way. This is so dark. This is so low vibration. I've forgotten all that I am. I'm not putting up with a lifetime of this."

And fear rose up, and I summoned that fear, that fear that you were looking to get rid of. Yes, and it is very much related to that. It was an expression of that root fear, absolutely, because here I was limited, stuck, unable to escape, you know, and I'm like, "No, mm." So I summoned my might, my spiritual might, and I because I knew I could, and I smoked the veil. I fought my way back out.

Wow, Trisha, just hold on to your thought. Yeah, so everyone listening to this, they've all had this experience of going down, down, down, down, down and entering. Yes, so I mean, of course, I can't speak for a given person, but yes, we all do accept it. It has to be a choice, okay? We have to accept the limitations of the physical, which include the veiling, in order to have this experience.

The reason it has to be chosen is because, at the deepest level, at the level of the soul, you are a piece of God. Like, there's no greater authority. You are completely, utterly sovereign and powerful. So what can lock God away except for God? Nothing. So that means we make a choice. We voluntarily surrender our power into limitation, into the veil.

Wow, so that's really important because, without surrendering at ourselves, no one else can take it. That's not how it works. So I can at least say that yes, we've all accepted the veil in order to be here.

So in this experience, I said, "No way," and I smoked the veil, and I fought my way back out, and I was successful at doing that because I was once again on the other side, and I saw that I had killed the fetus that was to be my body. I caused a miscarriage for the mother, and I saw how my choice impacted the mother and how she experienced deep grief because of the miscarriage that I had caused, right? And how her grief affected hundreds of other people. I could see, like ripples in a pond, like I didn't just affect her. I affected hundreds of people because her grief meant that she would take more weight, more sorrow into her life, into her interactions, and that was basically the result of my choice.

I don't want to say my fault because that's not the way the spirit looks at it, but it was the result of my choice, you know, like I caused that change. So I could see that in my life review, and I thought, "Oh man, I mean, you know, it's okay, like from that point of view, it's okay, but I also could see very objectively, like oh man, I got a lot of fear. I got to do something about this."

But there's something else that's coming to me. You had just entered a fetus, you decided to leave, and you got a life review when you returned just from that little stint. I'm not even totally manifesting. Well, I had manifested. I was in the planet. I just hadn't been born, right? You know, whether or not the baby has emerged from the mother's body is not actually the defining line. You know, like I was in the body of the womb. I don't know when, but I felt like for this life, it felt like I came in very early in the pregnancy, and it felt like a long time that I was in my mother's womb.

And I understand that the soul enters the body at different times also. Yes, that's my understanding as well. For me, it was early, but I know of others who might enter later during the pregnancy or even during birth or even slightly after birth. Yeah, yeah.

So I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but I thought that was a, everybody, you realize, okay, so keep going. Okay, so basically, I wanted to, I still had this intention, so they brought me this life, and I reviewed this life in incredible detail. And what I mean is, it was like a flowchart of millions and millions and millions of possibilities of what this life might be like. It was like if you took a tree and laid it on its side and started at the thick part of the tree and worked your way out to the branches.

I could see all the possible paths that were predicted as potentials, and I could feel what it would be like to be me. I mean, there were events in it, but it wasn't primarily about events. You know, humans are like, we want to know about events, but the way I reviewed it was more like, what would it be like to be me, to be Christian, and human? And I could see that it was very likely that in my early 20s, I would be crushed by a health condition.

Wow, and that would cause that would give me the opportunity to re-experience this fear, and I was super excited again. This is not masochism, but I could just see the opportunity, and it was amazing. And I asked questions about the life. I made certain requests, like I asked, "Can I be intelligent again in this life?" Because I knew that in recent lives, I had been intelligent, and that was an aspect of experience that I didn't really want to give up. I enjoyed that, and they said, "Yes, you can do that."

And I knew it was important that I be a man, be male, not that you know, men and women, not that either sex is better or worse or something. They're just different energies, you know, and the certain kind of energy of being male would give me kind of like almost like an obtuse edge or something to face this fear. And I knew that the way my father would treat me would be important. He would raise me with confidence, you know, like I wouldn't have a self-esteem issue because of my father, and that would allow me to have a rock to stand on when the fear arose.

So then I remember there having to be a moment to say yes, and I don't remember that moment, but I do remember being in this waiting area. It's the only way I can describe it, and then this guide coming to me and being like, "Go now," like really, really abruptly, like almost like a slap across the face, not negative, very like, "Go now, you're on Earth time, buddy, go." And I'm like, "Okay," and then being in this, how do I describe this? It's like it was like a mechanic shop or a space station or something above the Earth, and below me was the Earth.

I could see the Earth. There was like a shaft, like a clear window. You could say in front of me were these beings that I can only describe as veil technicians. I know this sounds wild, but they were very technical in nature, and their being is extremely skilled at veil application because the soul is so unique in its nature and in its qualities, and each given life is so unique, each given body, each given world, you know, each species, each family, even. There's so many energetic things going on, and so they do this thing that, like, I don't know, makes it organically fit so that the veil works well. It's effective, and it's like custom-tailored, so to speak.

And so I remember them asking me one last time, "Are you ready? Are you sure?" And I knew that if I said yes here, I was in for the ride, and I said yes. And then once again, I felt the vibration plummet down, down, down, lower, lower, lower, lower, lower, all the way down, like so low, and feeling like I was being shoved inside of a tuna can, but also feeling like I had arrived to a place that was empty and cold, like the vacuum of space, even though I was in the body. It just felt vibrationally so dark, cold compared to where I had been.

And this time, I just tried not to fight it, you know, because I knew, just don't fight the veil. Let it do what it will do. Surrender to it. And then I was there for a while, and then eventually, I sent one message back to the technicians, "Did it take?" And they sent one message back, "Yes." And then I felt accomplished, actually, because I knew even making it to the physical was a huge step. It was an accomplishment.

That was your first step in overcoming fear in this lifetime. It was actually a first step in coming forth, and no one's ever brought that up, but that actually is the beginning of that, the beginning of this life. That yes, yes, that's very powerful.

Well, okay, so but at this point in the story, I hadn't quite said yes yet because I hate to even call it a story because this is an experience that is alive even right now, like this experience that I share. It has a sequence, but it's also not linear like human experience. Anyway, so that's really a hard quality to describe.

Okay, so after I was there for a while, I was like, "I'm not doing this. I'm not doing this. This is not happening. This is so dark. This is so cold. I am not going to put up with a lifetime of this. No way."

So you're in another womb, and you're doing the same. Now I'm in my mother's womb in this life, and you're doing the same. You're going through the same trip. And so once again, I began to summon my might to fight my way out. When I did that, the most holy moment of my entire life happened. The spirit of what we call God, the Great I Am, the presence of all things, came down to me and unfolded me back out, and I felt everything within me.

I felt our universe within me, and I felt the sun of Earth within me, and it was churning with bliss, and God said to me, "This is still what you are. You can never not be this." And it was, I was like, "Oh," because the reason I was fighting was because I thought I lost everything that I was. I thought I lost my true nature, but I hadn't. It was just a veiling. It was just a big illusion, you know.

So I stopped fighting, and I let go into the simple existence of being in the womb. I'm sorry, I really try to, you know, not get moved to tears every time I tell the story, but honestly, it's like pulling down my pants every time I tell this because, Christian, I love that freaking holy. It is so freaking holy to me.

And so that was one of the main reasons I didn't share this for a long time because it's like, you don't talk about stuff that's just that holy, but then I thought, "Wait a minute, like this could help," because that's what motivates me, okay? It's because this is not specific to me. This is not about me. This is about us, man. This is about what we are all doing here. We are all spirit that is much, much larger than the human experience. We really are. That is the truth.

Now, we may be very, very, very deeply veiled into form. I'm not making light of that, okay? But the truth of our being, which is total love, peace, freedom, and joy, is such good news that I just want to share it. Like, what could be more important to say? So that's it. It feels like this could be your sole purpose in this lifetime also, to share this, to bring all.

I know I'm excited to share love if that's possible because if we can do it here, that's freaking awesome. Mhm, that's amazing. So you know, you had some really eye-opening experiences. I mean, I'm fascinated by your out-of-body experiences, and I had an out-of-body experience during a car accident, but I just went into the void. I really did, and very quickly afterwards, I re-entered my body as the car was spinning around.

But could you tell us about some of your experiences, Christian, and the insights they provided you also as you've gone through all this? Your story is so amazing.

Sure, so okay, so first of all, out-of-body experiences are very normal when we are not so deeply associated into form anymore. We all experience higher aspects of ourselves that are engaging other reality systems all the time. And I've had different kinds or types of out-of-body experiences, and I'm not quick to label them because they're so hard to label.

I will say that I have experienced reality systems that are so freaking lucid and beautiful and full of color and light that they put Earth to shame. And people say, "Well, how do you know that was real?" No, this is so self-evidently real when you're in that state of being. It's so clear and lucid and connected and pure and full. It'd be like watching an IMAX movie and then coming back to a tiny 8-inch black-and-white television, and someone says, "Well, how do you know the IMAX was real?" It's like, "Well, this is like nothing. This black-and-white television is dull and tiny by comparison."

It's like that. So I feel like that was the main takeaway, like I remember when I first started having these experiences, I was so excited. I just wanted to tell people. I was like, "We really are multi-dimensional beings of love, and we have nothing to fear. This is incredible. People need to know this." And there was this funny moment. I've shared this before, but it just reminds me of how kind of silly excited I was, and I only entertained this idea for about five minutes.

But I told my wife, "I'm going to make flyers, and I'm going to put them in people's mailboxes, and they're going to say, 'You're a multi-dimensional being of love, and you have nothing to fear.'" And then she's like, "If you do that, you're going to be that guy." I was like, "Oh yeah, I will be that guy if I do that." So of course, that's not the way to reach people. I'm just sharing that I was extremely excited because it feels a little bit like winning the lottery, you know, when you discover, "Oh my gosh, I am not just the limitations of the body."

Now, there's only been one time in my whole life I've been able to voluntarily lay down and go out of body. I typically don't have conscious, you know, I don't just lay down and do it, but it happens here and there, you know. One time, I was walking around my house, and I thought I was awake, and I thought it was a Saturday morning, and then I started wondering, "Am I out of body?"

I was walking around. I could feel the carpet under my toes. I could feel the cracks in the wall. I got to the bottom of my steps, wondering if I was out of body, and I actually concluded I was not. That's how normal it was. That's how lucid and clear and perfectly normal it was. And then I felt stupid for even wondering because, and then I thought, "I'm the only guy in my city wandering around his house wondering if he's out of body. Now I feel like an idiot."

But the light was still just slightly different, and I thought, "You know, man, maybe this really is out of body." I'm like, "Okay, so if I'm out of body, I'll be able to walk through this wall and go out into my front yard." And so I did. I walked right through the front wall. I was actually, and then I kind of teleported right into the middle of my yard because that's how it works when you're out of body. If you want to be somewhere, you just are there.

And I could see the sun rising, and I was like, "Holy crap," and then as soon as I started thinking about it, I was back in my body. But it wasn't like when I woke up in my bed. That was more real. No, it was equally real. Like I was in my front yard, then I was in my bed. Do you know what I mean? Amazing. Like it's not like it's so normal. It's like when it happens, you're like, "Oh my gosh, what the heck was that?"

Is it just that your soul at the moment, like just kind of loosens its grip and just leaves for a little while? Is that so?

I like to reverse the order here and instead of thinking of it like there's a physical universe and there's a body, and you're inside of it, and it's real. It's actually the other way around. Your soul is the thing that's real. Your consciousness is the thing that's real, and the physical is just something arriving on and in it. It's like when you watch a movie at the movie theater. If someone said to you, "How do you leave the movie?" Well, you were never in the movie. You were just staring at it.

So what is the thing that we're staring at? Real hard sense data and thoughts. Like I know that sounds like, "Well, what is reality beneath those?" Because as soon as we start looking beneath sense data and thoughts, at first, it seems like there's nothing there. It's just silence. The living fabric of your consciousness is very deep. It has a lot going on, and when you can really let go of focusing on all the very demanding sense data and all the very important thoughts, and your thoughts will be very important because they always are. That's why they're arriving. They have something important. They're demanding your attention for.

When you let go of all that deeply, you find, "Oh, that stuff is just arising in me. I see. I'm actually not the thoughts. I'm not the sense data." So the reason I'm responding in that way is because the physical universe is kind of like that. There's a Seth quote, something like, "Physical reality is like a bright point of light that you just never look away from, but you can."

And so I like that description. So when your body is asleep, you know, that's a natural time because you're not focused on the sense data. Your brain's off. Your body's asleep, you know, but if your consciousness awakens, then you have it's easier to go out of body because you're no longer being captured by that dense sense data.

So yeah, that's fascinating. That's fascinating. I mean, it's bringing me to, I can remember two out-of-body experiences I've had. I had the one in the car accident, and I had one when I was a kid, and you just described what happened when I was a kid. I was sleeping, and all of a sudden, I felt myself kind of flying over my house and exploring, and I suddenly said, "What is this?" And then I brought my soul back into my body before I, and I didn't realize at the time what was happening.

So thank you for, thank you for that education that you just gave me. You just gave me another little piece to understand my own experience. So can you, one small comment there, just for that might be helpful for somebody. So, just a tiny little comment. So assuming that the physical is the fundamentally real thing and that you are stuck here, that belief is part of the thing that keeps it locked in.

I'm just lifting that up because, as soon as you kind of loosen even that belief and start really alertly looking at your reality, just even your waking reality, it tends to open the door for other experiences because your consciousness is already starting to be like, "Wait a minute, is this really as firm as I thought?" I'm just lifting that up.

Yeah, no, I know, and I'm going to make the contribution because I want my next question, and I have a comment about it. This is so fascinating and so wonderful to talk with you.

My next question is, why does a soul actually come to Earth, which we're kind of establishing is to evolve and to get rid of issues that we've come upon in other lifetimes and all, and how does the soul expand through choice-making, and why do many souls choose these significant challenges on Earth?

So do we choose these unbelievable things that some of us are going through? Do we choose them because we want, like you, you were overcoming fear? We all are trying to learn something and elevate our soul consciousness from our choices, but people don't make very good choices, and they don't go anywhere. So could you explain that concept to us?

Yes, first of all, it's not possible to not go anywhere, but so we do come to evolve and to learn, but the learning is not an intellectual learning. Intellectual learning happens. That's a part of it, but it's not about intellectual learning. It's about a growth of the being by being something, okay?

So what are the two main ways that we really are growing? And these are both very big. The first is experience integration. So that is, we come to terms with what we're experiencing, and we integrate it into what we are. We really figure it out. We really learn it. We really experience it. We experience something to the point where we say, "Oh, I've been there, done that," you know, like we get real experience.

And so that includes processing our experience psychologically, processing our experience, okay? So this, and the second main one is, and this is like the most important thing, we come to wield a high quality of intention because what I mean by that is, we come to wield an intention that is loving and all the things that love means—love, joy, peace, freedom, our true nature—rather than intention that is aligned with fear, which means ego because the ego arises from fear.

So all the anger, the selfishness, the pettiness, you know, all that stuff that we do that arises out of fear, that's fear-based intentionality. Why am I saying intention and not choice-making? Because intention actually precedes the choice context. It then shines through the choice context and makes choices in it, and the quality of intention that we refine here, we get to keep that.

See, the context will fall away. Consciousness will not fall away. You will still, the lessons we learned and the things that we went through, they will stay with us as we move forward and come into another lifetime or whatever. Absolutely. It's still you. It's like if you do something Monday night and then you do something Tuesday night and then you do something Wednesday night, even if you did a different activity those three nights, it's still you, and you still take with you what you learned on Monday to Tuesday and Tuesday to Wednesday.

Now, in the case of reincarnation, even though what we're talking about is an intellectual context wipe, that is not the critical part, actually. The critical part is, as a being, who are you? What are you? What do you want? Understand at the being level. What do you really, what have you processed? You could even say, what virtues? I don't want to make this sound too prescriptive, but basically, what virtues have you truly learned, truly developed, that you truly embody?

You see, it's about quality of intention, not just the context, not just the understanding, you know. But what about people who come with the intention and they kind of fail because they fall into fear and negativity and judgment and all of those things in a lifetime? They don't seem to grow. They seem to burrow more into the negative aspects of being.

Fear is always insane, whether it's small fear or large fear. So let's just say that first. Fear is not the optimal choice, and fear just means yet unevolved, okay? So it just means there's some part of our experience, some context, some situation, some perspective that we have not fully come to terms with or healed. And I like the word "healed." That we have not fully healed or integrated yet.

But to your question, what about people who fail? Okay, so now if I said to you, "This person is going to go to the gym, and they're going to bench press 80 pounds, and this person over here is going to go bench press 200 pounds," maybe the 80-pound person has no problem, and they are able to lift the weight, and the 200-pound person has a real challenge. They really have a hard time. They're lucky if they get it up one rep. Did they fail? No, they lifted 200 pounds. It was heavy.

You see, the reason I'm lifting it up that way is the context of Earth. Failure is not really the right way to look at it. It's just that we sign up for different levels of constraint, different challenge levels. So for instance, if you sign up for a lifetime where you have a physical illness, that's a lot harder in certain ways than signing up for a life where the body is fully healthy.

Or maybe you sign up for a context where your family life is very difficult. Then you are basically robbed of certain psychological strengths or supports that would have been useful. Or maybe you're born, maybe you choose to be born into a country where war is likely, and now you have to deal with this terrible societal context where people are being killed.

Now, so it's about what we do with that context. It's not that we enter into it and, "Oh, now we failed." No, see, the love of spirit is so understanding. It is so, so, so understanding. That's why when we say that God's love is unconditional, it is absolutely unconditional, and it's not a stupid unconditional. It's like a ridiculously wise unconditional because it sees exactly those limitations. It knows us better than we know ourselves. It can see every angle, and it is us.

And so it knows exactly why we were pushed to make a choice that might have been less loving. Now, does that mean that we should make fearful choices? No, we're here to choose love. We're here to overcome that fear. We're here to process it out, but it also means that it's not about judgment and failure. No, we, it'd be like if someone went to Mount Everest and climbed the mountain, and they only got halfway up. When they come back down, you don't say, "Oh, you failed. You failed." No, man, we respect them for that because they went to a very challenging place in the cold where there was no air.

That's how it is being human. We've come to this place where spiritually there's like no air. It's so cold here. There's so much fear in this world, and even while we're here, we're trying to make the very brave choice of being loving. You see, it's like doing it in the midst of the muck. That's the great challenge, and we are respected for that, not judged.

Wow, and that's a big thing that I have learned as I evolve. I am, and it's hard to give up judgment, yeah, as a human being, but it's for me, if you take the witness, the higher perspective, you can see why people do what they do and not judge them for it in a way, you know. And then you have your choices of how you react to their supposed negativity or whatever, which is from their soul, what they're going through.

So that brings me to my next question. You say that hardship is a gift, and it's important to feel our pain without any judgment. So we're talking about not only judging other people's hardships and the pain they are going through but our own, which I often hear people say they're going through something and, "I was so stupid," or "I shouldn't have done this," or "I shouldn't have," and they're judging.

And when they pulled me out of the car, and I got beloving and kind to everyone, I got that that meant me too. So that does not include judging yourself. So can you explain to people why we choose, I mean, we're talking about we choose these big challenges to learn and evolve, but that we should not be judging other people's experience nor our own? That we need to understand when difficulties and challenges come to us, in some ways, we've chosen them for lessons to learn or whatever. Can you talk to us about that?

Yeah, so the ego, which just means the part of us that's responding in fear and really trying to fix this big problem that's here now—the big problem being that I'm separate from the whole, I have no power, I feel shameful, I feel unworthy of love, I don't have control, you know, that's how we feel deep down, right? When we're faced with such limitations, and we respond in fear to them, the ego is just the part of us that says, "You know what? I'll fix that. I'm going to grab on to whatever I can here. Here's some power."

Judgment is a very simple and common example of that. The ego says, "Oh, you feel powerless here? Judge the person next to you. Look at how bad they are and how good you are. See, now don't you feel better?" That's not true power. It's fake power. It's based in fear. True power is alignment with spirit and everything that spirit is, everything it means, which is love, peace, freedom, joy, and acceptance, saying yes, actually being willing to process and experience the things in our lives.

And that is an act of saying yes, not judging ourselves, but saying, "You know what? I feel pain. Feel it. Feel it to heal it." It's a phrase I love. I think that's one of the essays in my book, "Feel it to heal it." So when I was, when my body was 22, and I went through this health trauma, the physical shape that it took was that I received, I was poisoned by potassium.

I was in China. I tried to move to China. I studied in China in college, tried to move to China after college. I was teaching English in a jungle. It was 110 degrees. I had a heat stroke, and then I was in the hospital for four days, and they gave me bag after bag after bag of potassium for four days straight. And something about my biology, my biology is very sensitive. I am way more sensitive than anybody else in so many ways. Like if you look at a bell curve, I'm like way out on the end.

So this completely trashed my homeostasis. My biology was in so much pain. My nerves were screaming in pain all day every day, and I could not escape it. And my body didn't sweat for 11 months. Whoa, it couldn't. Anytime my body temperature would go up, I would just get sick. I would start vomiting. Like I couldn't cool off. But it led to many other things. I ended up, I have celiac disease, so and I had my lung collapse at the age of 26.

This is related. It's a separate event, but similar fear where I had internal bleeding in my chest cavity, and so for 10 days, I was in the hospital with a tube in my chest where I had to lay there with this tape up and down my whole body that was itching and this large bore tube in my chest, and I couldn't escape, and it just hurt all the time. Like they stuck it in, and they left it there, and I'm like, "What do you mean you're leaving it in?"

And in China, well, the China thing was at the age of 22. The lung collapse was at the age of 26. I was back. Feeling for your mother. I'm feeling for your mother who watched. Thank you. It was her precious son. You got it. She'll appreciate that because it was very hard for her.

So I'm just saying, I've been through nerve, and that's just a couple. There have been other examples. I've been through many very painful health conditions, some that have lasted for many years. Okay, so I'm just lifting it up because what I found, so then I had post-traumatic stress in my 20s after the experience of 22, and I went through counseling, EMDR therapy for years, and I found that I had buried that fear under hundreds and hundreds of layers of ego crap, stories, justifications, escapes, distractions, judgments, anything I could think of to not face how I felt in that hospital bed in Chongqing, China, when I was dying of at the time low potassium, and I felt like there's absolutely nothing I can do to escape this terrible pain.

After years of going through that counseling, I found it was by seeing and feeling each layer of my own BS and owning each layer of my own BS that I finally got to the root where it was so terrifying. I thought that fear will destroy me if I feel it, but I went in anyway, and I accepted that feeling, and it doesn't matter if I cried for hours and if I felt my whole body, no, it's okay. I felt the feeling that I rejected at 22, maybe when I was 28 or something.

It was only after all that healing and processing at the age of 30 that I was able to have this awakening experience precisely because I said yes to it all, all the darkness. I didn't say no. Like basically, we don't have to say no to life. Life is not our enemy. Like do we know that? But the ego, the ego will really say no, but I don't like that. The ego says, "No, I want my little weapon of judgment," or "I want my little weapon of I'm special because of this."

I mean, you can choose that if you like, but it doesn't actually work. You will still be miserable. I mean, I don't mean to like, I don't mean to like judge too broad of a brush. I'm just saying that as we align with rejection, we don't actually heal. Healing is about being so vulnerable and so willing to face our own crap and take ownership for our own lives, take ownership for our own pain, take ownership for looking at maybe how somebody abused us.

Wow, that was terrible. Acknowledge it. Acknowledge how you feel. Take your power back actually by feeling because sometimes we, you know, in the case of abuse, like I know, I know at least a couple people who couldn't face for a long time that they had been abused because it would mean acknowledging how powerless they were.

You see, it takes a lot of bravery to actually go in and face how you actually feel, but there's so much power there. And as we say yes to reality and yes to everything we've experienced, that is experience integration. You see, when you do that in this now, you do it for all the nows in all the lifetimes. Like it's like a deepening. Like you could, so to bring this back to your original question, I know this sounds maybe unrelated, but it's the same exact thing.

Contrast is a useful creative tool, nothing more. So when we can say yes to the depths of contrast, even then, that's how deep our experience is capable of being and becoming. That is what we're here for. It's the most tasty thing for the soul that otherwise, I mean, it is immortal. It can't be threatened, but man, to have that taste of a truly real challenge, oh, that is powerful stuff.

Well, I mean, I can liken it to just bring it down to what I would think of compared to your description. Mine is a little more layman description, yeah, but my, in my experience, my family abandoned me for 23 years, and I have healed so much. I've been in therapy and different modalities that I understand now what happened with my father. I understand what brought him to be the way he was. It doesn't take away what I went through, but I have left. I basically let go of judgment, and I tell people that's one of the reasons for this podcast because I tell people, "You have no idea the joy you can feel when you let go of that judgment of your story."

Right, so you know, we have different stories, but they're the same in a way, right? Yes, so you know, so let me go to another one. We know that when we leave our physical bodies, we become so much more what you've been describing than we were in life. So in our, on the other side, are we like an orb of energy that can telepathically communicate and relate to whoever we want to relate to? Or, and I've also heard that there are different planes of existence depending on where our vibration is. Yes, did you find that?

Yes, so when you ask what are we really, the actually the question is not directly answerable because consciousness itself, life itself, beingness itself, awareness itself, whatever word we want to use, transcends all form. So when we ask, "Are we a ball of energy?" That's a form. Are we this thing? Are we that thing? What did I look like? Tell me a look because now I'll be able to picture it.

For forms arise within beingness, consciousness, not the other way around. So okay, but that being said, some practical words for what that stuff is: total love, total freedom, total joy, total peace, the fabric of bliss itself, the fabric of aliveness, life itself. That's what we are. That's really why they call it heaven. Yes, it's really, and that's to your other part of your question that there are reality systems that are much, much more full expressions of that true nature that I just described.

They're, we call that high vibration because when you're there and when you shift to it, you can feel it as a vibration in the body of your awareness, and it is so blissful, and it's so home. It's like going home, whereas coming here is like leaving home and putting on a 2,000-pound coat or maybe going into outer space, and you're like clunking around outside the space station, barely able to do anything, and then you're like, "Oh, you know, no, that, that this is the more limited dead state actually being physical."

And so, but it's not negative. It's just that this is just a highly limited state, a highly dense, crystallized state, that's all. So I'm getting that when we die, it's sort of like a graduation. We came through this incredibly difficult experience. It's taking off that 2,000-pound coat, and now you're like, "Oh my God, I can breathe again. Like this is amazing, and how did I ever forget that?" And it's very normal. It's very natural.

Death is a release of the constraints. It's a wonderful thing. It's not something to be feared. I mean, it is, it's like, what would you be afraid of taking off all this weight that you've been trudging around, you know, at the end of a long day or working a week in a suit or something? Like no, you'd be great taking that off because you're free again.

So now we've taken off this constraint. We've gone back home, and now we get a life review, but that life review also doesn't contain judgment, right? But we do feel the lessons we learned, and we feel how we affected others. Have I got that right?

Yes, so yes, because okay, so here's this is going to sound really weird, but the other is you, okay? Because you, you are you. You're individuated. You'll always be you. Don't worry about not being you. Your individuation is precious and preserved, but you are simultaneously one with the whole. Oneness and individuation are not mutually exclusive.

So when you pass over, other parts of the big you, the whole, other drops in the ocean are the other people you interacted with, and they, so you can experience, and you do experience exactly how you affected them because they're other parts of you ultimately, and you experience it from a first-person or third-person or multiple points of view experience for the purposes of learning, you know, because there's so much that can be learned when we see the whole thing at once.

Now, wisdom is not automatic, actually. The vision is all there. The data is all there. The knowledge is there. The question is, even then, what do you do with it? Are you willing to drop even then, like wow, and take ownership, like wow, you know, I did some stuff, wow, I guess I did that now, and that, see, and that's why the guides are always so supportive of us during our life. It's not that they're judging us. They're loving us and supporting us.

During the life review, it's the opposite of judgment because they know we're going to see what we did and how we affected exactly. We're going to go, "Oh my gosh, I did that. I can't believe I did that," you know, and then, so that's why they love us because they know that we're going to see, "Oh, I," because it's one thing to say, "I'm a good person." It's another thing to look and see, "Oh, I hurt a lot of people."

Now, that's not judgment. It's simply data. It's just who you are, not even just who you were. That's important to lift up. Now, I want to lift up also here, it's really important to know what the most important thing that we're reviewing in the life review is. This is so important. It's quality of intention itself, not just the effect that we had on them. It's about the true why that we did what we were doing. That's what matters. The real why. That's what we're here to evolve and grow and learn from.

So if we have a, like if we truly, like gosh darn mean it at the center of our heart, absolutely had a positive intention, and we ended up causing pain for somebody, that is seen as one package, you know. So the quality of intention, that purity of intention, it's seen and known, and it's beautiful, and it's celebrated, even if we can see, "Oh, that might have had this effect on them."

So I'm lifting that up because quality of intention is first. It's not primarily about you produced 10 love widgets, and there they are, you know, in the form of some output, some physical effect. It's not even just about physical effect, but if you really choose love, it will mean serving the person next to you. It will mean smiling at the person at the store. It will mean giving a hug to the person who needs it. Like that's what I got. Be loving, kind to everyone. That was, you know, but Christian, what if a person's intention was really to hurt a lot of people? Like you have, then that's who they are.

Then that's who they are. What happens now? They cross over. They see, and you know, the intention was, and they succeeded. They really hurt a lot of people. What's the process for them there?

Well, let me just put it very simply, and I mean to make this sound neutral. They are who they are. So the reason I'm saying it that way is then they see, "Oh, I'm a fearful person," which means I am a yet unevolved person. That's all. It's not negative. Oh, it's about how evolved they are. So they, they do, they have a choice. They may have to experience different things to confront what they did and then to evolve, or they can stay stuck on a lower vibrational plane or whatever. Is that how it works?

Yeah, so let me just put it this way. Like, let's say that you are addicted to some form expression as an ego pattern. What if you're a narcissist? Is that like okay? Narcissist, let's just take narcissism, and you really are always focused on yourself, and then you know, you have like, you can see, "Oh, I really was focused on myself, and I hurt a lot of people." Well, that's who you are. That means that you will resonate into experiences where that can be experienced and faced and healed.

See, like we like to think karma is some system of judgment. It is. There is a, it is about cause and effect. Like if you are a narcissistic person, you will tend to have experiences where you then experience both the results of narcissism from others and the pain of your own narcissism in however many ways, whether in this life or in very low vibration thought-responsive realities that you yourself resonate into.

It's not a punishment. It's that that's where you resonate. That's who you are. So you're going to just spend some time over here. It's really about choice, right? And so the laws of cause and effect that are karma allow us the opportunity to see and face our own unevolvedness. It's not a punishment. It's just that we tend to be guided into the unhealed, unintegrated parts of ourselves so that we can heal them and really work past them and really grow.

It's ultimately, see, ultimately, it's a, healing is our destination, no matter what. I think of it that way. You can't not return to the full love, peace, freedom, and joy of your true nature one way or the other in the long run. It's not possible, but during our sojourns into worlds of form, whether it be this life or other thought-responsive reality systems that are low vibration for a time, you know, what we might call temporarily hellish experiences, we might resonate ourselves into those.

Another way to put that is we might choose those, and someone says, "Well, why would I choose the hell of fear?" We are all doing it in many ways every day when we continue to choose fear. Like we don't think of it. We think it's the best choice because we'd rather not face our fear. So I'm just saying, basically, we have free will. So if you resonate into a low vibration perspective, then that's just who you are, and then you will do that until you will see, "Oh, fear is insanity."

And what I mean by that is fear is painful. Ego is painful. Anger is painful. Self-judgment is painful. It's not great. We have to actually experience that firsthand and third-hand and second-hand, you know, before we really go, "You know what? I'm going to face all that and really choose love, really be my true authentic self all the way."

Like sometimes you have to be so uncomfortable for so long. So a person who has chosen to really be in this low vibration situation, it's an unevolved, immature soul perhaps, and they have hurt all these people. Then they are presented with a choice also if they can come back and maybe experience what they did to others or yeah, or that because they're choosing to learn from that so that they can evolve and grow, right?

So yes, some of these people are very, who are so hurtful, are just very unevolved souls who don't understand. So I'm sensitive to labeling these souls over here as unevolved. There are different levels of, or immature, or yeah, I mean, we could even just say less experienced, to be honest, you know. Like it, I'm a little sensitive to that because souls are beautiful and unique. Every one of us is so beautiful and unique. There's nothing wrong with any soul.

You know, I'd be like saying a grapevine is less evolved than an oak tree. Like they're just different, you know. One yields grapes, and one is thick and strong. Okay, but yes, we may see that there is opportunity for us to integrate some type of experience. So in my case, I have experienced a lot of physical trauma in this life, which I know is a gift, okay, not a punishment, because it has given me the chance to see firsthand the absolutely terrible darkness of the fear that in the past had led me to be an egoic person and to damage many other people.

That is a part of me. Like, like, basically, I'm responsible now for who I was then. It doesn't matter that it was a different life. It's still me. So now, in this life, it's just that, "Oh, I have a different context and a new chance, a valuable chance to really face that in a real new way and to really come to terms with it and process it."

And by the way, I'm just feeling nudged to say this. The EMDR therapist that I worked with, she has no idea how she played a role in helping me do that. Like she performed a service of a human activity called EMDR therapy, just a structured way of working through your fears and seeing in the body where the resistances and the pain are.

Oh, I've experienced therapy, yes, layer after layer. And so she has no idea that she was helping me facilitate an incredibly important personal deep healing and processing and integration that was so deep from even in previous lives. She has no idea, but how important was it that she did that?

So I'm just lifting that up because there may be ways that you bless the person next to you that seems so small. Maybe you just smile at somebody in a certain way, and it gives them that little bit of light, that little bit of strength that they turn and face their own crap and heal a little bit. So I'm just lifting that up because when we choose love, we empower each other to heal. It's like a big snowball.

That's true. The other thing I do want to say to people, and I think you'll resonate with this, Christian, is out of loving yourself though, if you come across someone who is so toxic or so in their ego, it's also loving for yourself that you, I call it detaching with love, that you can send that person love but that you can keep your distance so that you're protecting yourself.

Yeah, and that, like, there's no benefit to you losing your peace if the person next to you is having a bad day and they flick you off on the street, you know. They're making an ego choice. They're just in fear. Do you need to lose your peace because they have fear? You don't need to, right? You don't actually need to. It doesn't really help when you think about it.

If you walk into a room, and there are 20 people there, there are 20 different groups of experiences, soul groups, mind you, coming from so how are you worrying about what all of them exactly in their own yes, constructed world with the roles that they're playing? Exactly. I mean, here in our world of separation, you are an NPC to them, a non-player character. I mean, you just, like, from their point of view, in the world of the separate, you look like just a character out in the world.

They can't really, I mean, actually, we do feel each other. We do actually connect and feel each other. That connection is always, always there. Our souls are always communicating all the time, but for someone who is very form-associated, it's almost invisible, that connection. So I'm just lifting that up because, like, then if they treat you poorly, are they really treating you poorly? No, they're actually quite blind to you. They're actually just focused on their own pain, their own fear, their own egoic response.

It's like if your child has a tantrum and they yell at you, do you have to get mad at them? No. In fact, if it's a child, you can see easily, "Oh, this is a little silly. I'll love you anyway," or "I'll just come back later when you're done with your tantrum, and we can, you can do that calmly." Yeah, you can do that calmly. You don't even need to let it affect you. It doesn't affect you. There's no reason that other people, you know, acting egoic towards us, that we don't, that we can't choose the same thing, you know.

So here's my last question for you, which is really the crux of everything that this podcast is about, Christian Sundberg. As we process and integrate our human experience, why is it important to heal, and how do we heal in various ways? Why should everyone consider having the courage to face themselves for their soul growth?

Yes, because love and peace and joy and freedom are wonderful. That's why. And the reason I say that is because healing is synonymous with the integration of experience, and as we integrate out the depth, we return to the fullness of what we really are. We return to our authentic selves. Your authentic self is healed, joyful, full of life.

So it's a little bit like asking, "Why would I want to be full of life? Why would I want to be joyful?" It's wonderful. And so it doesn't seem at first like facing the darkness is the way back to that, but actually, it is because in saying yes to everything, we integrate the experience, and the fullness of who we really are can rise up.

Like, basically, you can be the authentic you. That's a very simple way to put this. Like, you, there's no actual reason you can't be the authentic you, but you have to heal the things that are coloring your experience, right? You have to, it's important to do.

I liken it to dropping your backpack filled with your issues, and you heal them. Now you're not carrying them with you everywhere you go, and it gives you such a lighter, joyful experience.

Yeah, part of healing is absolutely dropping the backpack because usually, we're holding on to the backpack because we think there's a really good reason to hold on to it, and usually, the reason for holding on to it seems better than the reason for not holding on to it. Do you know what I mean? So eventually, we say, "Oh, I'm actually going to put this down." Did you know that you can put down everything in the world of form? All the thoughts, all the must-dos, you can like, that's how deep that's how deep this peace goes.

Wow, and how would one go about doing that? By continuing to heal. Yes, so the reason I'm not directly referencing healing is because healing is what happens when we do this, both physical healing and deeper, you know, psychological healing. It has to do with what it all boils down to: what quality of intention are we wielding in this moment?
If something fearful or painful or negative arises, okay, first step, I see it. I see it for what it is. I'm not going to look away. I'm going to be acknowledging of it. How does it feel in the body? How does it feel in my mind? What is it connected to? And it might be connected to something really gunky, and then you follow that layer, and you, it's like EMDR, you know, you follow the layers down and see what they're connected to.

Eventually, you find some really gunky stuff in there, then your own basement. The ego, of course, is going to say, "That's not my gunky stuff. That's someone else's gunky stuff." It's all your experience. Who else's experience is it than other than your experience? And so you can let go of those things. You can clean out the basement and drop that gunk. It just means acknowledging what's actually down there.

You can't clean out the basement until you acknowledge what's in the basement. You have to see it and then acknowledge it and be willing to see it, be willing to see it, and that's all about choice, about choice, choice here in the physical, choice as a soul when you come to do that, to deal with that.

And why is our true nature already joy? Is it because that's who we are on the other side? Would you like to talk to us about that joy?

So the question actually can't be answered directly because it would imply that there is some reason, but it's just the nature of consciousness. It's just the nature of spirit. Spirit's very fabric is joy and love and peace and freedom. It is just what is. It is the most real thing. So anything that is not that means we've gotten stuck in something that's that we're not, some story, some form association, some negative self-perception that the world seems to have proved to us, some judgment, you know.

And so it's not really, "Why is our true nature joy?" Our true nature simply is joy. Consciousness simply is. It doesn't actually have a precedent. It's just the thing that is, and when we fully get in touch with that through saying yes, fully accepting this life in this moment, and fully really being our authentic selves through form, so quality of intention is first, shines through form, then that joy just rises up on its own.

You know what I mean? It's just what we are, and then we see that the physical is an expression of that joy. It's not actually this terrible machine meant to crush and kill you. It's just a very daring, bold, ambitious creative exercise that we've all done together to create this environment where we might actually feel separate and see what is yielded from that experience.

But our true nature always remains what it is, and that's like the one thing I love to lift up. What is our true nature in all this? Because if we can just be reminded of that, even if we hear that and we go, "You know what? That pisses me off because I don't feel that way. I feel mad." I'm at, "Okay, okay, that's fine. Look at that. Find out why. What did life seem to prove to you that seems so dire as to why you can't face that or be joyful?"

You see, it's all about how we choose to meet this present moment. So I know all that sounds a little abstract, so I'll just boil it down to one idea: simply choose in this moment how to interact with this moment. Simply choose more openness, acceptance, more love to the person next to you, love within yourself, more freedom, like not have-tos but cans, you know, more joy, more like, "I'm going to have fun with this, even if I look like a silly child or something."

What if, and you say, "What if I really want to go take a nap?" Then go take a nap. It's okay, you know. If we can choose that in this moment and listen to our bodies, listen to our hearts, listen to our minds, work with it, work with life, work with the flow of life, then we will find that joy is here and shines through all this form.

That's beautiful, Christian. I have to say that I am feeling tremendous joy interviewing you today and sharing you with, thank you, all of our wonderful audience. It's really marvelous. I deeply, deeply, I mean, you're so special. I deeply appreciate you being here today.

As we close, I would like to share this eye-opening quote from your illuminating book, A Walk in the Physical, with our Grief and Rebirth Podcast audience because it really touched me. And the quote is actually there too:

"Death is the end of the physical experience and a lifting of the constraints that consciousness brought into in order to be human. Death is not the end but in fact is a wonderful transition to higher states of being. Metaphorically, death is like taking off a constraining spacesuit and returning to the freedom of what one really is. Thus, when someone we love experiences the death of their body, let us remember our love for them. Let us take consolation that we have not truly lost them, for they exist right now, not as less than they were, but in fact as much, much more."

Christian, I actually wrote that the day my uncle passed from Earth. Oh my gosh, and I really felt it. I really felt his presence, though he wasn't fully, his body had died. It's there's just some transition stuff that happens, but anyway, yeah, thank you.

The thing that I really want to lift up there is, "They exist right now. They are." And I mean, this is not weird. This is not strange. They really do exist right now, and they're all around us, and they know what's going on in our lives, and it's a beautiful thing, and it takes away the fear of death, truly.

And for me, in my life as Irene, I focus on having as much joy and love in my life as I can until that time when physically I die, and I go back to who I am, and that is, that's that is the life well-lived, right? And that is that that is success, right? And people will say to me, "Irene, you have such an unusual attitude," but I like you, I had this awakening, and it has made all the difference in my life.

And from my heart, Christian, I want to thank you because you're doing such illuminating work, and you're helping people know and understand our true nature and the importance of love in this human journey of ours. And thank you also for this amazing, incredibly enlightening interview. I know we've helped so many people today.

As I like to say, to be continued.

Thank you again, Christian.

To be—thank you so much, Irene. Much love to you.

Thank you. Much love back, Christian.

Many, many blessings, and perhaps we will do—perhaps we will do this again. It's just been a wonderful—I'm very grateful, I'm really grateful.

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Have a great day.

Thank you.

Thanks for tuning in to Grief and Rebirth. Remember, you can dive deeper into everything we've discussed by checking out the show notes and all past episodes at iyweber.com.

Don't forget to follow us on social media: @IreneSweinberg on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and wherever you love to hang out online. Plus, we're on YouTube, so be sure to subscribe and never miss a video.

For those of you listening, you'll find links to my two books, Good to the Last Drop and They Serve Bagels in Heaven, in the show notes. And if you're watching on YouTube, you can see those books listed right above, so don't miss out.

And here comes a special treat—if you sign up for Audible as a first-time user using my link, which you can find in the show notes, you can get They Serve Bagels in Heaven for free.

And finally, people often ask me what I read, what I use, and what I recommend for healing and self-care. So, I have carefully created a compilation of those items to share with you. You can head over to kit.co/griefandreirth to check them out.

Thanks again for tuning in, and until next time—many blessings.